It would obviously be great if there was no moderation, but I believe them when they say that they receive a ton of truly nasty comments as well as pure spam.
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For everyone reading with fear all the negative comments at United Hollywood about this deal, know that you are only reading one side of the story.
Despite having a cordial and respectful posting relationship with United Hosting in the past, I am disappointed to report that my last two comments have not been posted to their corresponding stories.
Neither of my posts were inflammatory nor irrational. Writers may or may not agree with the comments, but dissent has always been tolerated at United Hollywood.
John Aboud has even posted one of my suggestions on the front page there. I have always been appreciative of their open-mindedness and, for the most part, their moderate (though obviously WGA-leaning) stance.
I have commented repeatedly that I would stop posting if I was asked to.
I was never asked. I was deleted.
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For the record, my most recent comment actually was posted, but was deleted within 30 minutes. The comment before that does not appear to have ever been posted.
The comments in question can be seen on this blog, under "If This Deal Was On The Table In October..." and "DGA Has Reached A Deal!"
Regular Divided Hollywood commenter TranspoBill also reports that his last 6 comments have not been posted.
United Hollywood's Post A Comment instructions still read "Rational debate and discussion from any perspective is welcome, and will never be deleted. "
23 comments:
I have chosen not to post at UH based on the tone of the comments there from the beginning. Anyone saying anything remotely independent of the WGA tends to be attacked as a "troll" or a "shill" or some other epithet. Or they get accused of hiding behind an anonymous name. It's truly an unhappy pool to jump in, and I'd rather not serve myself up for the hit.
The current state of posting at UH may have something to do with two notes posted on the VARIETY blog. The first mentions picketers at NBC who mostly responded to the same inquries with the same talking points regarding the DGA deal. The speculation in the article is that the WGA is trying to make sure that the first official reaction to the DGA deal comes from the leadership. To this end, there are many hardliners who are furious with John Wells and Craig Mazin for having publicized Wells' email opinion before the leadership could publicize their own reaction.
The more recent article concerns an email sent to members by Verrone, Bowman and Winship on Friday. The email says that the WGA leadership is waiting to see the full documentation of the DGA deal before saying anything. The email also indicates that the WGA leadership is open to re-establishing talks with the AMPTP. The email asks for patience of the membership while they work out the numbers. And it notes their intention to have a public meeting to discuss where they are right now. Finally, the email mentions another 4 small indie side-deals for the WGA and insists that this will force the AMPTP back to the table.
All of you here at DH are correct....if an opinion differs from those folks at UH, you are automatically deemed a shill, "no doubt paid by the AMPTP." This is extremely frustrating, not having the voices of the below-the-liners heard. It's extremely one-sided and ironic, considering the forum. I am, fortunately, a working 600 member (commercials), and used to be an avid supporter of the writers, but now feel the WGA is exploding from inflated God-complex egos. Based on their lack of respect for us in the BTL, these divas are slowly losing the respect of most other unions. And just something we've always discussed among the ranks in our Local....shouldn't a DP receive residuals? A writers words would merely be a short novel if not for the creative talent of the visual director. (Sounds like shill-talk to me!)
Who are they really?
"We're a group of volunteer WGA strike captains, and we're posting our reactions to the DGA deal summary that was released today."
Hmmm...yet "they" post anonymously "Posted by United Hollywood at 11:02 PM"
The site really has lost all credibilty and should be considered irrelevant at this point. No discussion of the truth there.
BTL 399
I have been in contact with someone over at United Hollywood, who says that they have been inundated with comments and are having a difficult time with the moderation.
He asks that we bear with them as they really are trying to get things right.
I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt on issues such as these (they are writers, after all, not professional IT guys).
I remain wary of the shaping of content there, however, as pro-DGA deal comments that are posted tend to be short, quick clips, while the retorts are often long, ripping replies.
Nonetheless, I have submitted again the comment which was posted then deleted. We'll see what happens with it.
I tweaked the comment slightly from yesterday, adding a new point and deleting the first and last paragraphs.
The comment, which was submitted on the story "Dissecting The DGA Deal" is as follows:
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The DGA spent $2M and two years studying the internet. Guess what they came up with? $1200 per episode per year is actually fair.
NBC/Universal's trade show boasts aside, the internet simply isn't a get rich quick goldmine, at least not yet.
Furthermore, the barriers to entry are so low that literally anyone with a camcorder can compete with Desperate Housewives.
Most importantly, television reruns are not going anywhere. To repeat the opposite is a Carl Rove mindtrick -- say something enough times and suddenly it is "truth."
Reruns of The Office and Mad Men and Battlestar Gallactica and Desperate Housewives will be on as long as the first run episodes continue to air.
Repeats of CSI Miami have beat first-run airings of anything NBC can throw at it (sorry Studio 60, Black Donnellys and Journeyman -- all of which I liked better!).
Reruns are here for years to come.
There will eventually be a convergence of TV and Internet. It's not here yet, and it won't be here tomorrow.
Incredibly smart companies have tried to speed up that convergence and failed. Apple TV has been a flat-out flop - -a rare admission from Steve Jobs confirmed it.
Hulu? Innertube? Complete jokes.
Amazon Unbox? Can you name one person who has used it?
So, at this point in the game, ANY residual on the internet is new money. It is not a rollback.
Far more importantly, jurisdiction over the internet provides protection for the Guilds and their Members when that convergence finally happens. (I'm sure it will, just not nearly as soon as everyone seems to believe).
Finally, WGA would have jurisdiction over even the lowest budget original content if that content employs a WGA Member. So the solution? Open up Membership! This is not a contraction of Members, it is an incredible opportunity to grow.
So before continuing to dis your sister Guild, Writers should stop and think about whether the DGA would really flush their $2M report down the toilet.
My guess is that when the Writers' NegCom sat down with the Directors' NegCom and got one look at the Directors' report, they probably sighed a collective "oh....".
The money's not there yet. The jurisdiction is.
The DGA deal is a very good deal.
It's not just the fact that the few dissenting posts that do appear are much shorter than the angry responses they get. And it's not just the fact that some dissenting posts get vanished. It's the atmosphere that makes it okay to call some people names - either calling people "concern trolls" or "shills" or denigrating people of my profession (ADs) as "interchangeable drones" or saying that we make our living by repeating the obvious. What I do on the job takes a heck of a lot of work, which mostly and appropriately goes unnoticed. I have no problem with that - if you notice the work of the AD on set, it's usually because something has gone very wrong. So anonymity is actually better - if things are going well, you don't really notice the ADs, and you shouldn't. But I won't sit still and take that kind of attack. And I won't put myself on a board like that to encourage further attacks.
I believe there is a conflict brewing within the WGA right now between the people who want to find a way to negotiate a deal based on the DGA pattern, and those who hope they can do better by waiting for SAG. This conflict has manifested in the Wells email, and in the backlash against him and Mazin for having made that email public. I'm fairly sure that several members of the WGA leadership and negcomm want to find a way now to get back to the table. They know that if they miss this opportunity, there are no more exits from the ride until July. But there are also still people in there, like David Young, and I believe Patric Verrone, who do not want to accept the DGA pattern either because they think they can somehow "win" the strike, or because they don't want to be perceived as "caving" in any way. We are now waiting to see the results of that conflict. I'm rooting for the moderates, but they haven't had much influence yet. This could be their big moment.
Well said BTL Guy!
Back channel discussions have apparently begun between that WGA and one of the congloms, and UH has asked their readers for a period of calm during this fragile time. I hope that they can maintain a news blackout if the negotiations resume. Meanwhile I just won't be bothered to read the comments over there and look for real news here and elsewhere.
Don't “remember to breathe” — just breathe. It's a Tao thing.
Cheers!
BTL 399
The fact that you have to tweak your comment in order to make it palatable for UH is revolting in itself. While I do think that it is possible that they are overwhelmed with comments to moderate, I do not buy that as an excuse for what happened to your comment, the one that disappeared. If they didn't have a policy of censorship, they wouldn't be having this problem. I had a relationship like that once, I wasn't allowed to say how I felt and it was like walking on eggshells at all times. I left that sh*t and never looked back. I took the same approach with UH. I have no idea who those people really are and how representative their opinions are of the writers opinions in general. Consequently, I discount everything that they have to say as being extremist rhetoric.
What really sucks, is that we are so desperate for any information that would help us assess what is going to happen in our own lives, that we go to UH for insight. It's like looking for information about the war by looking to state run news organizations...or the White House press secretary. It's all filtered and spun. We only hear what they want us to hear in the way that they want us to hear it.
I only check the UH website to get an idea of what the WGA members are thinking. And usually, it's the hardline position. I don't take it as anything more than opinion.
For news, I look to a multitude of sources, between both trade papers, the LA Times, and my own contacts within my guild and others. When everyone is saying a version of the same thing, you know you're on the right track.
Nikki Finke's gossip column is only of interest because other people I know will call me having read her material, and the only way to know what they're talking about, or to have a coherent answer, is to find out what Finke said and then try to see if there is any possible truth to it. Occasionally, she'll get something right - like the Warner Bros. Blu-ray announcement and the Paramount shakeup - but most of the time it's simply gossip and rumors. I wouldn't be surprised if she tried to peddle a book about the strike when this is all over. And I hope she'll be held accountable for her actions at the end of the day.
In the meantime, all sides appear to agree that the WGA is starting the backchannel process. UH says it started yesterday. The trades say it won't start until next week, after the WGA leadership spends the weekend reading the fine print in the DGA deal. And most of the hardline voices are insisting that the WGA leadership hasn't seen the deal yet - which I find hard to believe. If we're really lucky, we'll hear about a restart of formal talks in another week. I'm still concerned about the hardliners, but it sounds like the moderates may be making progress. I'm also still concerned about another WGA announcement calling the deal a big pile of "rollbacks".
Like many others, I was in support of the writers at the beginning. But, with the name calling, demeaning of the people these writers work with, and the mistakes in judgment by the leadership, I have lost respect for the guild and a lot of it's members.
While it may start with the story, it takes a lot of talented people to make the finished product into something people will pay to watch. As a reality check, have them put their script online, and see if anyone pays to read it.
At this point, anything the guild "wins" will have come out of the pockets of the rest of the industry, rather than the producers.
Good point brother.
Nikki Finke used the same excuse about being inundated with comments.
The cries of "shill" and "troll" at both UH and DHD are disgusting. The hardliners are lemmings. God forbid Mazin and Wells should not only have their own opinions, but actually express them. Meanwhile, I don't think Mazin and Wells are the only ones who have done so. Will the hardliners go after everyone who publicly reacts to the DGA deal with the stones to attach their real name to said opinion?
The WGA will take credit for the parts of the DGA deal they like, and will accuse the DGA of being weak for agreeing to the parts of the deal they don't like. Nevermind the fact that the DGA went in prepared with a boat-load of research and data, and a clear plan of what they were going for.
I guess the WGA doesn't want to be confused with the facts.
The pompous bastards at UH are taking credit for the gains that the DGA has made. Everything good is because of the WGA. Everything bad is not their fault.
What are the writers afraid of? Realizing this was a foolish strike? They must know the moderates (showrunners) are frustrated by the length of this and have enlisted an agent who was helping the WGA. He is now helping the moderates craft a deal from the DGA deal to present to the leadership. Since this deal has a sunset clause it will be very hard for the WGA not to find a way to make the DGA deal their own. The hardest job for the WGA will be saving face. There is a lot of bad blood and if they don’t come to their senses soon there will be the 2nd round of force majeures, yes there is more dead weight yet to go. This strike has cost the WGA more than they will ever gain, for them to say differently is fooling themselves. They claim its helping the BTL health and welfare, the Producers also pay into that so don’t let them tell you they are your benevolent uncles. They are costing you and them plenty.
I wonder how the extremly vocal hardiners at UH will react when their leaders announce that they can work with the AMPTP based on the DGA template. Will they scream for blood or will they spin?
And who cares as long as the talks proceed towards a deal?
When this all ends sites like UH and DHD will become once again non-entities, though in my mind they already are there.
No real news today other than the NFL playoffs. What, no pickets in Green Bay???
BTL 399
They sure have done a fine job of alienating a lot of people!
I agree that it's going to be almost impossible for the hardliners to save face if the WGA is able to make a deal with the DGA pattern. They've been sold the bill of goods that they could somehow "break" the AMPTP and "win" a strike if they went out in the middle of the TV season.
They were clearly hoping to inflict major damage on the networks and studios, and instead, the studios are posting profits. They were hoping to be the ones to set the contract pattern for the industry, and instead they've had to sit on the sidelines and watch the DGA do it. They were hoping to sweep Reality and more of Animation into their ranks, and instead those efforts have spectacularly failed on the ground level and when they tried to mandate them by contract. They were hoping to somehow remove the no-strike clause from their contract and achieve a moral victory, and instead they're looking at not even getting the conscience clause. David Young was hoping to make a name as having stood up to the major players in Hollywood, and instead he's been slapped down by Counter and been rendered irrelevant. Patric Verrone was hoping to make a name as the WGA President who didn't cave, and instead he's going to have to explain this deal to a membership he has riled up to the point that he may not be able to calm their reaction.
The reactions I have seen are ranging from the smoldering disappointment voiced by Mark Evanier (who is now admitting that the deal might not be as bad as he thinks it is) to the rage voiced by many posters at UH as well as Kay Reindl and Josh Olson. It's interesting that these guys are ALL OVER Mazin and Wells for endorsing the DGA deal before management has said anything but they say nothing about the piles of uninformed posts that dismissed the deal out of hand before the ink was dry. I personally saw Wells' email as a RESPONSE to all the negative emails and posts - his way of saying, "Guys, this is actually a good deal, not the bad one you think it is." And yes, he has more influence than the average guy in the guild - that's why he put that email out; so if the average hardliner puts out the expected angry "Deal BAD!" post, s/he might think about that after seeing what an experienced writer/director/producer/showrunner has to say about it.
I actually agree with a lot of the post made by Joss Whedon on UH, but not in the same direction that he's thinking. Whedon assumes that the AMPTP is solely to blame for trying to "draw this out more", when the WGA tactics are equally to blame. Further, he doesn't acknowledge that the WGA hardliners have repeatedly stated their enthusiasm for staying out a very long time - one of them even said he was prepared to strike "until the sun burns out." He notes that the WGA believes that the AMPTP has "not made one decision based on fair business practices." He's correct - that's what the WGA hardliners think. But the WGA is not blameless here either - they pushed for a strike at the first opportunity, and refused to negotiate in good faith to forestall it. Their expectation was clearly to see the AMPTP "break", and when that didn't happen, they had no exit strategy to allow them to find a way out of the mess. Whedon is correct to note that there are things that have been broken here that cannot be fixed, that there are truths that have been revealed that cannot be laughed away or forgotten. And he's right that many of those involved the behavior and greed of the AMPTP. But he fails to note that the behavior and belligerence of the WGA, which will similarly not be forgotten. Some of the more outspoken and angry hardliners are most likely not going to be employed much in this business anymore. That's both because they won't be able to stomach working in it, and because their employers tend to not like hiring people who call them names and hurl invective and profanity at them.
Whedon is right when he notes that a lot of damage has been done here. I honestly don't know what will happen when my show comes back, whether that be in July, or if it happens sooner. I don't know how we go back to the routine of having our writers on the set if they're going to be bitter about the results of this strike and the crew is certainly going to be bitter about the pain it caused them. That's a lot of tension that we're going to have to deal with, and I don't see any Band-Aid solutions to it. If we truly are nearing the end of this strike, that is going to be a key problem for all of us to solve as a community.
The Great Paul Haggis has spoken...there is no schism in the WGA. UH has become Faux News. We tell you what we want you to hear. He may not know of any feature writers but I can assure you TV writers have and are making their frustration known to the WGA leadership.
Just because the UH propaganda website says it, doesn't make it so. It's a disreputable information outlet. What really matters to me is what the membership as a whole is actually thinking. Not what a handful of pro-censorship spin doctors have to say. Hopefully, the moderate and rational voices will not be silenced by the bullies that you find at United Hollywood. The name alone, United Hollywood, is testament to how full of bullshit these people are.
And Paul Haggis, big deal. Just because you've had some success, doesn't mean that you are a credible source of information. You can still be a liar, deluded, or self-centered and full of shit.
Case in point, George W. Bush.
And now the bitch is almost back over at DHD with a less than helpfull headline: "Is That Shitty DGA Deal The Only Deal?"
Gee thanks for that Nikki! Pretty much sums up your role in all of this - useless agitator. If that is all you've got stay gone please and let the negotiations resume on a professional basis.
In typical form, Nikki Finke has already changed the wording to be not quite so negative. Now she says "That Shitty DGA Deal is at least a Start". I don't even know how to respond to this behavior. She's clearly trying to pour cold water on the idea that the WGA could use the DGA pattern to make its own deal. She may even be trying to extend the strike, and therefore her own perception of her importance.
This is the same kind of thing she was doing when she posted such gems as "Fox Fires All Of Its Showrunners!" or when she fell for the email hoax about the conspiracy of A-Listers and showrunners. (I have, by the way, been able to read the email in question, and its very clear that both Nikki Finke and the targeted screenwriter fell for a pretty obvious lie. Finke then compounded her error by refusing to admit it, and she apparently thinks she can just ignore it now.) But the fact remains that she was and is posting unsubstantiated rumors without checking them. And by doing that, she has made the situation even worse than it already was.
When this whole mess is over, get ready for her book about the strike, in which she positions herself as the only reliable journalist to cover it.
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